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with international law. so are these drone strikes illegal? do you believe? >> these drone strikes the way they're being carried out is illegal. >> bill: that's a pretty bold statement. the united states is breaking the law. >> well, the only time the united states, outside a battlefield area the only time the united states or any country can use lethal force against someone is in self-defense. and what we know from a leaked document, a leaked legal document that is called the white paper. they have this view of what self-defense means. a view of self-defense is not -- would not be recognized by any court in the united states and no court in the world. it basically says that the test for self-defense is you have to be stopping an imminent threat. but here they're saying imminent does not mean it is about to happen. imminent just means there's some kind of pattern of behavior. >> bill: some day you think it might happen. >> yeah. >> bill: i think it is extremely important issue. i'm glad you're out in front. i think we've got to keep the pressure on and not only be careful about those drones ove
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